Oceans reveal sudden cooling.

That's a good questiom

Global warming is causing polar ice caps to melt at rapid rate, fresh water (melting glaciers and ice shelfs) pour into the ocean. Fresh water causes the ocean currents to slow down, and as a result temperature drops in the ocean.

How's that for a theory?

COLD, Fresh water is POURING into the oceans...
how could they not (temp) cool down ?
It won't last.


[link to www.climatepatrol.com]

That theory holds some water (pun intended). Seawater is denser and tends to flow beneath fresh water.

So, if all that excess heat goes into space......does that mean if I take a hot bath and run some cool water to make things less hot.....the old hot escapes to space?

The saltier the water, the more heat it can hold, 'tis true. And conversely, the less salty water would hold less heat; But it would take a bazillion cubic miles of fresh water to lower the saltyness of oceanwater: Can that be happening?

It's all those capt Nemo crazy inventors running their "free energy" machines, sucking thermal power out of the oceans.

[link to www.cheniere.org]

However, if the water cycle has developed a kink(as I suspect), more water would remain in the world's oceans reducing the overall salinity; that could be happening.

If anyone has a subscription to Nature they have an article Oceans Cool Off in Hottest Years [link to www.nature.com] I think its 30 bucks so I'll have to wait for reruns but I bet it would be interesting.

"Oceans reveal sudden cooling."

message brought to you by...George Bush.

8824, agreed; the energy is all around us. It's a matter of teasing it out and putting it to work(horsepower).

I have seen much on the shutting down of the Thermal Conveyors ... and so it comes to pass .. Wonder how the Gulf Stream is fairing ?

GULF STREAM Normal flow off US, declines toward Europe.

[link to www.unknowncountry.com]

Streibers site, don't agree with him on many things, but he has a page dedicated to watching the "super storm" scenario they laid out.

Wasn't it a single bouy that signaled a drop.

Here we have a worldwide signal of large drop.

This is a large sudden drop

Ice age just around the corner.

The Argos temperature floats seem to have been put into use in 1999, so I don't think they have a lot of historical ocean temperature data to really compare these results with, maybe the ocean temperature has varied a lot more in the past than they knew, so maybe this current fall is not that unusual?

[link to www.noaanews.noaa.gov]

SMALL FLOATS TAKE OCEAN'S TEMPERATURE

March 22, 2002 — The global ocean will eventually have 3,000 fussy nurses taking its temperature every 10 days. Part of the alarm system to warn of an impending El Niño, the Argo fleet of five-foot-tall yellow cylinders ride the waves of the world's oceans, monitoring temperature and salinity during their journey.

"These floats are the weather balloons of the ocean," said Stan Wilson, NOAA Director of International Programs, during a three-day international science meeting, which took place last week in Hobart, Tasmania. "Just like weather balloons travel through the atmosphere gathering data, so do the Argo floats, but they take measurements through the water column."

As the floats drift with the ocean currents, they spend about six hours at the surface before sinking down to 2000 meters (or about 6,000 feet) where they drift for about 10 days. After 10 days, they begin to rise to the surface, recording temperature and salinity data. Once they reach the surface, the floats beam back the data to a satellite that relays it to a ground station.

"Argo has changed the way oceanography is being done," Wilson said. "Before, data were collected and not shared until publication, which could take a great deal of time. Argo data are fully and openly available with no periods of exclusive use by anyone."

The data are often available within hours of being collected.

"The benefit is that the data can be used for operational forecasts as well as by the scientific community thus contributing to our understanding of the role of oceans in climate," Wilson added.

Wilson explained the Argo project to President George W. Bush when he visited NOAA in Silver Spring in February.

There are about 340 Argo floats in the waters today. Plans call for a total of 3,000 by 2006.

Data collected by the floats are used to:
Develop predictions for the onset of El Niño and thus for major changes in rainfall and other climatic conditions;
Monitor and understand climate change and measure sea level rise;
Provide better and more timely information for marine safety and rescue
Fisheries; and
Environmental management and protection.

The international Argo effort—which now includes more than a dozen countries—began in 1999. The Argo array is part of the Global Climate Observing System/Global Ocean Observing System (GCOS/GOOS) and contributes to both the Climate Variability and Predicability Experiment (CLIVAR) and the Global Ocean Data Assimilation Experiment (GODAE).

The newness of the data gathering system prolly means there is a very limited baseline with which to compare. Could they have deployed the remote buoy system recently only to discover this astounding fact?

lol, ac. <Plans call for a total of 3,000 by 2006.> That's a lot of data. Usually with that many data points, you would see little or no change. I'll have to read the links now... If this is an observation based on statisical analysis(I'm guessing it is) then all bets are off as to the significance of the finding.

19187 hit the nai on the head. Its so simple a child could figure it out. But the bainiacs don't have a clue. And yes a Bazillion gallons of water can come from the melted polar ice!

<Studies coordinated by Bruce Weilicki, of NASA's Langley Research Center, found that when sea surface temperatures rise above 28 degrees C, Pacific rainfall becomes more efficient. More of the cloud droplets form raindrops, so fewer are left to form high, icy, cirrus clouds that seal in heat. As a result, the area of cirrus clouds is reduced, and far more heat passes out into space. This cools the surface of the warm pool, the world's warmest ocean water.>

I'm assuming they are referring to the the net overall loss here(they don't describe it as such), since fewer high cloulds would allow the Sun to heat the water more as well as allow greater cooling at night.

It is like chess in three dimensions...but some may see the moves better than others. Interesting point by 19187.

Dang, thanks for the Hurricane link. Good point!; Since Hurricanes exist to cool the ocean surface, logic would say a cooler ocean means fewer hurricanes.

415, <The more we look, the more we learn about the Earth's complex climate forces – though not much of the new knowledge comes from the huge, unverified global circulation models favored by the man-made warming activists.> A put-down of the global warming crowd here; It may be a well earned dismissal, but the anti-GW crowd has the data...why can't they share without the crowing?

No matter what happens the globle warming NUT case will blame it on warming and man.
The ocean temps go up, Global warming
The ocean temps go down, Global warming
Major storms, Global warming
No major storms, Global warming

They hold all the cards in their view.
No matter what its shows their view point in their mind.
So dum.
Couldn;t be the normal eb and flow of earth weather could it??

What's your Secret, higher energy prices will bring about these changes , not gov't regs.

To reduce individual emissions dramatically, only a few minor lifestyle changes are needed: Action CO2 savings
Replace the 20-year-old fridge with an energy-saver model. 3,000 pounds.
Send out one fewer 30-gallon bag of garbage per week. 300 pounds.
Leave the car at home two days per week. 1,590 pounds.
Recycle cans, bottles, plastic, cardboard and newspapers. 850 pounds.
Switch two standard light bulbs to fluorescents. 1,000 pounds
Replace the current shower head with a low-flow model. 300 pounds.
Turn the thermostat down two degrees for one year. 500 pounds
Cut vehicle fuel use by 10 gallons in 2003. 200 pounds
Switch from hot to warm or cold water for laundry. 600 pounds


So, higher oil prices are good for us, no?

"so I don't think they have a lot of historical ocean temperature data to really compare these results with, maybe the ocean temperature has varied a lot more in the past than they knew, so maybe this current fall is not that unusual"


The ships and submarines of the navy of many countries have always checked water temps. They have a pretty good historical record of what the temp is. The point here is that the temp was very high and it dropped suddently. That questions the CO2 theory which they say will make a straight upward climb.

Cold oceans seems to throw some cold water on that. Submarines started their records during WWII. They were able to see it happen in real time with the buoys so to speak. They didn't have to collect all the data from the various sources and compile it.

60359, very excellent link. I haven't explored the other links included, so I could be off the mark, but, is it the temp changes that is the cause for alarm? or the salinty changes(if any) as 19 suspects? I will look further.

Regards,

There are million of fossilized mastodons in siberia that were frozen very suddenly, almost as if they were instantly freeze-dried, and they all had green flowering forage in their mouths.

The point is it went from warm conditions to frozen almost instantly.

Due to lack of time I was quidkly skimming the thread. What data do they base this claim on, how extensive is it and how far back does it go? I expect that ocean temps, like atmospheric measurements, is like a rather complex thing to try to explain.

China is cranking out a lot of pollution right now and that is major factor in cloud production. If cloud productions or non production is regulating the ocean temps maybe the industral waste from China and an up swing in forrest fires might play a part. RELEASE: 06-278


NASA Explains Puzzling Impact of Polluted Skies on Climate

NASA scientists have determined the formation of clouds is affected by the lightness or darkness of air pollution particles. This also impacts Earth's climate.

In a breakthrough study published Thursday in the online edition of Science, scientists explain why aerosols -- tiny particles suspended in air pollution and smoke -- sometimes stop clouds from forming and in other cases increase cloud cover. Clouds deliver water around the globe, and they also help regulate how much of the sun's warmth the planet holds. The capacity of air pollution to absorb energy from the sun is the key.

"When the overall mixture of aerosol particles in pollution absorbs more sunlight, it is more effective at preventing clouds from forming. When pollutant aerosols are lighter in color and absorb less energy, they have the opposite effect and actually help clouds to form," said Lorraine Remer of NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center, Greenbelt, Md. Remer worked closely with the study's lead author, the late Yoram Kaufman of Goddard, on previous research into this perplexing "aerosol effect."

With this new understanding, scientists working to predict how the Earth's climate is changing will be able to take a big step forward. The effect of the planet's constantly changing cloud cover has long been a problem for climate scientists. How clouds change in response to greenhouse-gas warming and air pollution will have a major impact on future climate.

Using this new understanding of how aerosol pollution influences cloud cover, Kaufman and co-author Ilan Koren of the Weizmann Institute in Rehovot, Israel, estimate the impact world-wide could be as much as a 5 percent net increase in cloud cover. In polluted areas, these cloud changes can change the availability of fresh water and regional temperatures.

In previous research by the authors and their colleagues, both effects that aerosols have on clouds were seen with data from NASA satellites. Over the northern Atlantic Ocean, clouds that often produce heavy rain storms grew taller and were more frequent when plumes of pollution from North America or dust from Africa's Sahara Desert were present. However, when smoke from large fires billowed into the sky over South America's Amazon River basin, clouds were consistently fewer than when the air was relatively clear.

With these observations alone, the scientists could not be absolutely sure the aerosols themselves were causing the clouds to change. Other local weather factors such as shifting winds and the amount of moisture in the air could have been responsible, meaning the pollution was just along for the ride.

"Separating the real effects of the aerosols from the coincidental effect of the meteorology was a hard problem to solve," Koren said. In addition, the impact of aerosols is difficult to observe, compared to greenhouse gases like carbon dioxide, because aerosols only stay airborne for about one week, while greenhouse gases can linger for decades.

To tackle this problem, Kaufman and Koren assembled a massive database of global observations that strongly suggests it is the darkness (absorbs sunlight) or brightness (reflects sunlight) of aerosol pollution and not weather factors that cause pollution to act as a cloud killer or a cloud maker. These measurements were culled from the NASA-sponsored Aerosol Robotic Network of ground-based instruments at nearly 200 sites worldwide.

The scientists conducted an extensive survey of sky conditions at 17 locations (including Washington, Rome, Beijing, and Mexico City) that represented different types of air pollution and weather patterns. Automated instruments that act like a camera's light meter to record how much sunlight was coming from the sky took readings several times an hour at different times of the year.

No matter where in the world the measurements were taken or in what season, Kaufman and Koren saw the same pattern. There were lots of clouds when light-reflecting pollution filled the air, but many fewer clouds were recorded in the presence of light-absorbing aerosols. "The probability that such a consistent relationship between aerosols and their effects on clouds is due to some other factor is very unlikely," Koren said.

NASA's satellites, computer models, and technology will continue to advance our understanding of how aerosol pollution affects the Earth's climate. NASA's formation of flying satellites, with the cloud-piercing instruments onboard the Cloudsat and CALIPSO spacecraft, are helping answer challenging questions such as the role of clouds in global warming and the influence of aerosols on rainfall and hurricanes.

For more information, visit: