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VETERANS DISARMAMENT ACT TO BAR VETS FROM OWNING GUNS

 
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 300229
Netherlands
09/23/2007 09:12 AM
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VETERANS DISARMAMENT ACT TO BAR VETS FROM OWNING GUNS
Hundreds of thousands of veterans -- from Vietnam through Operation Iraqi Freedom -- are at risk of being banned from buying firearms if legislation that is pending in Congress gets enacted.

How? The Veterans Disarmament Act -- which has already passed the House -- would place any veteran who has ever been diagnosed with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) on the federal gun ban list.

This is exactly what President Bill Clinton did over seven years ago when his administration illegitimately added some 83,000 veterans into the National Criminal Information System (NICS system) -- prohibiting them from purchasing firearms, simply because of afflictions like PTSD.

The proposed ban is actually broader. Anyone who is diagnosed as being a tiny danger to himself or others would have his gun rights taken away ... forever. It is section 102(b)(1)(C)(iv) in HR 2640 that provides for dumping raw medical records into the system. Those names -- like the 83,000 records mentioned above -- will then, by law, serve as the basis for gun banning.

No wonder the Military Order of the Purple Heart is opposed to this legislation.

The House bill, HR 2640, is being sponsored by one of the most flaming anti-Second Amendment Representatives in Congress: Carolyn McCarthy (D-NY). Another liberal anti-gunner, Sen. Patrick Leahy (D-VT), is sponsoring the bill in the Senate.

Proponents of the bill say that helpful amendments have been made so that any veteran who gets his name on the NICS list can seek an expungement.

But whenever you talk about expunging names from the Brady NICS system, you’re talking about a procedure that has always been a long shot. Right now, there are NO EXPUNGEMENTS of law-abiding Americans’ names that are taking place under federal level. Why? Because the expungement process which already exists has been blocked for over a decade by a "funds cut-off" engineered by another anti-gunner, Sen. Charles Schumer (D-NY).

So how will this bill make things even worse? Well, two legal terms are radically redefined in the Veterans Disarmament Act to carry out this vicious attack on veterans’ gun rights.

One term relates to who is classified a "mental defective." Forty years ago that term meant one was adjudicated "not guilty" in a court of law by reason of insanity. But under the Veterans Disarmament Act, "mental defective" has been stretched to include anyone whom a psychiatrist determines might be a tiny danger to self or others.

The second term is "adjudicate." In the past, one could only lose one's gun rights through an adjudication by a judge, magistrate or court -- meaning conviction after a trial. Adjudication could only occur in a court with all the protections of due process, including the right to face one's accuser. Now, adjudication in HR 2640 would include a finding by "a court, commission, committee or other authorized person" (namely, a psychiatrist).

Forget the fact that people with PTSD have the same violent crime rate as the rest of us. Vietnam vets with PTSD have had careers and obtained permits to carry firearms concealed. It will now be enough for a psychiatric diagnosis (a "determination" in the language of the bill) to get a veteran barred ­for life ­ from owning guns.

Think of what this bill would do to veterans. If a robber grabs your wallet and takes everything in it, but gives you back $5 to take the bus home, would you call that a financial enhancement? If not, then we should not let HR 2640 supporters call the permission to seek an expungement an enhancement, when prior to this bill, veterans could not legitimately be denied their gun rights after being diagnosed with PTSD.

Veterans with PTSD should not be put in a position to seek an expungement. They have not been convicted (after a trial with due process) of doing anything wrong. If a veteran is thought to be a threat to self or others, there should be a real trial, not an opinion (called a diagnosis) by a psychiatrist.
If members of Congress do not hear from soldiers (active duty and retired) in large numbers, along with the rest of the public, the Veterans Disarmament Act -- misleadingly titled by Rep. McCarthy as the NICS Improvement Amendments Act -- will send this message to veterans: "No good deed goes unpunished."

[link to www.newswithviews.com]
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 302208
South Korea
09/23/2007 09:19 AM
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Re: VETERANS DISARMAMENT ACT TO BAR VETS FROM OWNING GUNS
Sounds like a good idea to me. Current law bans firearm retailers from selling to a person with mental illness.
PhantomLordNYC

User ID: 107138
United States
09/23/2007 09:28 AM
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Re: VETERANS DISARMAMENT ACT TO BAR VETS FROM OWNING GUNS
Yeah but there's a difference between being a raving lunatic like what's his face who shot up Virginia Tech and someone who is shell shocked from seeing his buddies head get blown off in battle.

See it's cause of stupid stuff like this I can't vote for a Democrat. They say they will change everything and in the end it's the same old crap as usual.
Senator Greenbaum
User ID: 302187
United Kingdom
09/23/2007 09:37 AM
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Re: VETERANS DISARMAMENT ACT TO BAR VETS FROM OWNING GUNS
Good G-d!

We can't be allowing military veterans with combat training to own guns!

They might decide to take over the government!


Or take back the government, either or.

Anyways you look at it, it's just not acceptable to any loyal Jumerikan.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 302206
Ireland
09/23/2007 09:51 AM
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Re: VETERANS DISARMAMENT ACT TO BAR VETS FROM OWNING GUNS
Good G-d!

We can't be allowing military veterans with combat training to own guns!

They might decide to take over the government!


Or take back the government, either or.

Anyways you look at it, it's just not acceptable to any loyal Jumerikan.
 Quoting: Senator Greenbaum 302187


The bill is unacceptable. This news needs to get out to all of our military who have not yet been deployed to Iraq. Get your guns while you can.
.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 302103
United States
09/23/2007 10:36 AM
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Re: VETERANS DISARMAMENT ACT TO BAR VETS FROM OWNING GUNS
Sounds like a good idea to me. Current law bans firearm retailers from selling to a person with mental illness.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 302208

They label anybody with a mental illness with their nazi quackery.

They took Veterans firearms as soon as the NICS went into affect.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 293212
United States
09/23/2007 11:04 AM
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Re: VETERANS DISARMAMENT ACT TO BAR VETS FROM OWNING GUNS
Sounds like a good idea to me. Current law bans firearm retailers from selling to a person with mental illness.

They label anybody with a mental illness with their nazi quackery.

They took Veterans firearms as soon as the NICS went into affect.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 302103



This is the Soviet model of pshchiatric medicine to which the US Governemnt has now subscribed!
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 302240
Puerto Rico
09/23/2007 11:07 AM
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Re: VETERANS DISARMAMENT ACT TO BAR VETS FROM OWNING GUNS
Good G-d!

We can't be allowing military veterans with combat training to own guns!

They might decide to take over the government!


Or take back the government, either or.

Anyways you look at it, it's just not acceptable to any loyal Jumerikan.
 Quoting: Senator Greenbaum 302187



That is the true purpose behind the bill!! Not to allow citizens who could defend themselves,family and friends when the Brownshirts come. Plus they would be able to organize a very resilient resistance movement as the civil war drags out.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 265264
United States
09/23/2007 11:08 AM
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Re: VETERANS DISARMAMENT ACT TO BAR VETS FROM OWNING GUNS
Gun owner receives apology from police chief.
[link to knoxnews.com]
we're in trouble
User ID: 296300
United States
09/23/2007 12:02 PM
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Re: VETERANS DISARMAMENT ACT TO BAR VETS FROM OWNING GUNS
Now this is a very scary situation. I ask again, how long will we wait? Is it already too late to return to a Nation of laws, real laws as directed by the Constitution...
Evil Twin

User ID: 79640
United States
09/23/2007 12:12 PM
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Re: VETERANS DISARMAMENT ACT TO BAR VETS FROM OWNING GUNS
putin

Wait until Hillary takes office, she wants everyone except her bodygaurds disarmed.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 302252
United States
09/23/2007 12:24 PM
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Re: VETERANS DISARMAMENT ACT TO BAR VETS FROM OWNING GUNS
This is crazy! Who says theyre unfit? the same people that want their guns? shame

Thats fine though I'll buy guns for my vet friends if this shit goes down. Get them while you can.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 301116
United States
09/23/2007 12:48 PM
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Re: VETERANS DISARMAMENT ACT TO BAR VETS FROM OWNING GUNS
Another typical LIBERAL/PROGRESSIVE LEFTIST attempt to disarm Americans and to render the Second Amendment as obsolete.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 259495
United States
09/23/2007 12:51 PM
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Re: VETERANS DISARMAMENT ACT TO BAR VETS FROM OWNING GUNS
good enough to die for false wars and even be guinea pigs for agent orange, eugenics, mind control, and dna alteration but not good enough to own a gun so sayeth your slave master
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 302208
South Korea
09/23/2007 12:54 PM
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Re: VETERANS DISARMAMENT ACT TO BAR VETS FROM OWNING GUNS
The second admendment says you have a right to bear arms, NOT, you have a right to bear a handgun.
Evil Twin

User ID: 79640
United States
09/23/2007 12:58 PM
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Re: VETERANS DISARMAMENT ACT TO BAR VETS FROM OWNING GUNS
The second admendment says you have a right to bear arms, NOT, you have a right to bear a handgun.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 302208

If you follow the true intent of the second amendment, you have the right to bear the same weapons as the military.
I want a concealed rocket launcher.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 17960
United States
09/23/2007 01:05 PM
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Re: VETERANS DISARMAMENT ACT TO BAR VETS FROM OWNING GUNS
Good G-d!

We can't be allowing military veterans with combat training to own guns!

They might decide to take over the government!


Or take back the government, either or.

Anyways you look at it, it's just not acceptable to any loyal Jumerikan.
 Quoting: Senator Greenbaum 302187

Yeh WTF I'm a vet, i could knock the horn off a rhino at 300 yards easy.
DC is full of traitors
User ID: 17960
United States
09/23/2007 01:09 PM
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Re: VETERANS DISARMAMENT ACT TO BAR VETS FROM OWNING GUNS
Good G-d!

We can't be allowing military veterans with combat training to own guns!

They might decide to take over the government!


Or take back the government, either or.

Anyways you look at it, it's just not acceptable to any loyal Jumerikan.
 Quoting: Senator Greenbaum 302187

wtf wtfwtf wtfwtf wtfwtf wtf

traitor DC pinheads

wtf
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 302252
United States
09/23/2007 01:11 PM
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Re: VETERANS DISARMAMENT ACT TO BAR VETS FROM OWNING GUNS
speaking of 2nd Amendment:

I want the AA12 with a full selection of shells including the frag-12 grenade. oh shit how sweet would that be...

[link to www.defensereview.com]
Normal Is Subjective

User ID: 302294
Canada
09/23/2007 01:16 PM
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Re: VETERANS DISARMAMENT ACT TO BAR VETS FROM OWNING GUNS
Articles a bit dated but it provides some history on how the bill got this far:

"Wednesday started out as a routine day in the U.S. Congress, with Representatives attending congressional hearings, meeting with constituents, perhaps devising clever new ways to pick our pockets.

At 8:30 in the morning an email went out to House Republicans indicating that a gun control bill, recently introduced by Rep. Carolyn McCarthy (D-NY), was on the Suspension Calendar (normally reserved for "non-controversial" bills).

Many Representatives didn't see that email until it was too late. Less than three hours later, the bill passed by a voice vote. The bill in question, H.R. 2640, is a massive expansion of the Brady Gun Control law, the subject of many previous alerts by Gun Owners of America.

Its passage in the House is a case study in backroom deal making, unholy alliances and deceit. A sausage factory in a third world country with no running water has nothing on today's U.S. Congress.

The Washington Post reported earlier this week that a deal had been struck between the NRA leadership and Democrat leaders in the House. The headline read: "Democrats, NRA Reach Deal on Background-Check Bill."

Red flags went up throughout the pro-gun community. Who was party to this "deal," and how many of our rights were being used as bargaining chips?

The McCarthy bill, at the time, looked to be going nowhere. The general consensus among pro-gun Congressmen was that any gun bill offered by McCarthy was simply DOA.

After all, if there were such a thing as a single issue Member of Congress, it would have to be McCarthy. Rep. McCarthy ran for office to ban guns; Hollywood made a movie about her efforts to ban guns; and she is currently the lead sponsor of a bill that makes the old Clinton gun ban pale by comparison.

Even many Democrats wouldn't go near a McCarthy gun bill. They have learned that supporting gun control is a losing issue. Enter Rep. John Dingell (D-MI), the so-called Dean of the House, having served since the Eisenhower administration. Dingell is also a former NRA Board member, and was in that capacity tapped to bring the NRA leadership to the table.

The end result of the negotiations was that this small clique among the NRA leadership gave this bill the support it needed to pass.

But why was it necessary to pass the bill in such an underhanded fashion? If this is such a victory for the Second Amendment, why all the secrecy? Why was a deal forged with the anti-gun Democrat House leadership, keeping most pro-gun representatives in the dark? Why was the bill rammed through on the Suspension Calendar with no recorded vote with which to identify those who are against us?

For starters, it would be a hard sell indeed for the NRA leadership to explain to its members what they would gain by working with McCarthy. If this legislation had gone before the NRA membership for a vote, it would have been rejected. For that matter, if it went through the House in the regular fashion, with committee hearings and recorded votes, it would have been defeated." [link to www.gunowners.org]

This is nuts and I'm Canadian who rarely uses guns, but you guys gotta do something about this shit.
I thought I'd beat the inevitibility of death to death just a little bit.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 17960
United States
09/23/2007 01:16 PM
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Re: VETERANS DISARMAMENT ACT TO BAR VETS FROM OWNING GUNS
speaking of 2nd Amendment:

I want the AA12 with a full selection of shells including the frag-12 grenade. oh shit how sweet would that be...

[link to www.defensereview.com]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 302252

Where could i buy one, looks like a real crowd pleaser.

[link to www.defensereview.com]

chuckle
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 302252
United States
09/23/2007 01:23 PM
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Re: VETERANS DISARMAMENT ACT TO BAR VETS FROM OWNING GUNS
speaking of 2nd Amendment:

I want the AA12 with a full selection of shells including the frag-12 grenade. oh shit how sweet would that be...

[link to www.defensereview.com]

Where could i buy one, looks like a real crowd pleaser.

[link to www.defensereview.com]

chuckle
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 17960



Haha I think you have to be "special" to have the ability to purchase that bad boy.. There is a phone number on that site if you are "special" though.

sweet! !
V
[link to www.defensereview.com]
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 230014
United States
09/23/2007 01:24 PM
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Re: VETERANS DISARMAMENT ACT TO BAR VETS FROM OWNING GUNS
Nothing says "well-armed" better than a rocket launcher!
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 301792
United States
09/23/2007 01:31 PM
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Re: VETERANS DISARMAMENT ACT TO BAR VETS FROM OWNING GUNS
Bet there's an exemption for the christo-fascist terrorists that are employees of Blackwater Mercenaries, Inc.

Just say that you love jesus and you get to keep your gun to use on United States civlians instead of Iraqi civilians.
Evil Twin

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United States
09/23/2007 01:36 PM
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Re: VETERANS DISARMAMENT ACT TO BAR VETS FROM OWNING GUNS
Take this a step further, and add in Hillary or John Edwards' National Health care plan with mandatory screenings, and you can see how they can effectively disarm the entire law-abiding populace by labelling all gun owners as mentally unstable. All it takes is Mental health professionals on the government payroll.
Anonymous Coward
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United States
09/23/2007 01:43 PM
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Re: VETERANS DISARMAMENT ACT TO BAR VETS FROM OWNING GUNS
Bet there's an exemption for the christo-fascist terrorists that are employees of Blackwater Mercenaries, Inc.

Just say that you love jesus and you get to keep your gun to use on United States civlians instead of Iraqi civilians.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 301792



Though I don't know the future.. currently this is a bet you could cash in.
Anonymous Coward
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United States
09/23/2007 01:45 PM
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Re: VETERANS DISARMAMENT ACT TO BAR VETS FROM OWNING GUNS
Take this a step further, and add in Hillary or John Edwards' National Health care plan with mandatory screenings, and you can see how they can effectively disarm the entire law-abiding populace by labelling all gun owners as mentally unstable. All it takes is Mental health professionals on the government payroll.
 Quoting: Evil Twin


Yikes.. do you have a 2009 newspaper?
Normal Is Subjective

User ID: 302294
Canada
09/23/2007 01:51 PM
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Re: VETERANS DISARMAMENT ACT TO BAR VETS FROM OWNING GUNS
Bet there's an exemption for the christo-fascist terrorists that are employees of Blackwater Mercenaries, Inc.

Just say that you love jesus and you get to keep your gun to use on United States civlians instead of Iraqi civilians.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 301792


Apparently there is this interesting amendment:

"The biggest problem is that Leahy’s amendments to the bill are (in my opinion) a good thing, as they expand on the existing law that allows retired police officers to carry concealed all across the country. The amendments have the full support of the Fraternal Order of Police." [link to www.nrahab.com]
I thought I'd beat the inevitibility of death to death just a little bit.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 74018
United States
09/23/2007 02:22 PM
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Re: VETERANS DISARMAMENT ACT TO BAR VETS FROM OWNING GUNS
wakey WAKEY!

slaphim
Underground_Dude

User ID: 281962
United States
09/23/2007 02:39 PM
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Re: VETERANS DISARMAMENT ACT TO BAR VETS FROM OWNING GUNS
I think they're going to have a really fun time trying to take the guns that the vets already have. HMMM let's see combat trained vets against regular cops I know who I'm putting my money on.

UD
Underground_Dude

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09/23/2007 02:43 PM
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Re: VETERANS DISARMAMENT ACT TO BAR VETS FROM OWNING GUNS
speaking of 2nd Amendment:

I want the AA12 with a full selection of shells including the frag-12 grenade. oh shit how sweet would that be...

[link to www.defensereview.com]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 302252





I just did a little write up on the USAS 12 which was the forerunner to the AA 12. We've been shooting it for around two weeks and all I can say is WOW what fun. The draw back is if you don't put as many rounds down range every week as we do you might have a little problem with the shoulder and induced flinch.

It is limited to a class III permit.


UD





GLP